Discussion:
N.O. awash in gun violence. So much for NRA's argument that guns STOP crime.
(too old to reply)
Eggs Ackley
2007-01-12 13:14:32 UTC
Permalink
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Bud
2007-01-12 13:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified. At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty. While I
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.

Bud
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Larry (Scratch)
2007-01-12 15:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Damn! Glad I'm not a small child in your family if you feel it is all
about you.
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified. At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty. While I
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.
Bud
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
--
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a
nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan


http://www.highvolumemedia.com/thebullhorn/WarOnTerror/ClintonsFailures/

\"POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE
CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON\"
SMITH29
2007-01-12 18:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry (Scratch)
Damn! Glad I'm not a small child in your family if you feel it is all
about you.
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes.
xxxx
Depends on the situation...

As a gun
Post by Larry (Scratch)
Post by Bud
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified.
xxxx
Not likely if justified but a person should have training for those events.
The Ayoob library is good.

At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
Post by Larry (Scratch)
Post by Bud
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty.
xxxx
Depends, but if you feel that way keep the gun in the belt. That's the
safest for you.
29
While I
Post by Larry (Scratch)
Post by Bud
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.
Bud
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Don Homuth
2007-01-12 15:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified.
It depends on the circumstances. There are some general guidelines to
the use of deadly force.

But if you find an intruder in your house and kill them, it's unlikely
that Anything will happen to you at all. 'Course, it would be best if
you weren't shooting them in the back as they exit your front door.
Post by Bud
At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty.
Nah -- best chance is a No Bill from a grand jury, if it even gets
that far.
Post by Bud
While I
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Depends on the crime. It's not particularly suitable for shoplifting
or even car theft. It is if you truly do believe your life, or
someone else's life, is in danger.
Post by Bud
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.
Those are good too. In fact, even better, since you'll have more
chances to use it that way than you will in Taking A Bite Out Of
Crime.
SMITH29
2007-01-12 17:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Homuth
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified.
It depends on the circumstances. There are some general guidelines to
the use of deadly force.
But if you find an intruder in your house and kill them, it's unlikely
that Anything will happen to you at all. 'Course, it would be best if
you weren't shooting them in the back as they exit your front door.
xxxx
A good read is " IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME " Massad Ayoob

29
e***@netpath.net
2007-01-13 02:21:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified. At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty.
And what would your FUNERAL cost for NOT using your gun to defend
yourself? Last I heard, morticians weren't cheap. Plus then your
family having to live for years without a breadwinner.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
Morton Davis
2007-01-13 05:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail, even if the
shooting was justified. At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial, even if I was found not guilty. While I
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.
You're eithe incredibly stupid, incredibly informed or just plain lying. In
most jurisdictions in the USA using a gun to stop a crime - even so far as
to kill the perp won't end up with you in jail. Where I live if someone
tries to rob you on the street you can kill him and the most that will
happen is you'll have to give a statement.
Al Montestruc
2007-01-13 06:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bud
Well, I do not support people using guns to stop crimes. As a gun
owner, I realize that using a gun and deadly force against another
person, even to stop a crime, is likely to send me to jail,
Depends on the situation and the jurisdiction (both state laws and the
local DA's attitude will have strong effects).
Post by Bud
even if the
shooting was justified. At the very least, it would involve a lengthly
(and costly) legal trial,
Nope. In many cases in the south, west or Midwestern USA (outside of
California) that is just not so. Often where the local DA thinks the
shooting justified no charges are ever filed, so it never gets to
trial, nor even to a grand jury.

The situation must be pretty clear as to who was in the right though,
and the shooting must be legal by state laws and those vary a lot from
state to state. What is legal in Texas for example would be murder in
many other states. For example in Texas one can shoot an unarmed thief
in the back so long as he is holding and trying to get away with the
property he stole, and the value of that property is high enough to
make the theft a felony. In many other states that would be murder.
Post by Bud
even if I was found not guilty. While I
believe strongly in a person's right to keep and bear arms, I also feel
strongly that using guns to try to stop crimes hurts the overall cause.
Use your gun to hunt and shoot targets, IMHO.
Bud
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
2007-01-12 14:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Hey dumfuck- I guess you conveniently forgot the feds confiscating
firearms from good upstanding American gun owners.....

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200509%5CNAT20050914a.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2005/090905gunconfiscation.htm
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/09/11/374/36486

Then they said they'd return them after a background check and PROOF
OF PURCHASE, which, of course, not to many people keep. How
convenient.

Rampant crime is what you get when you disarm good citizens. But of
course, you're too fucking stupid to learn from this lesson.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
SMITH29
2007-01-12 17:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Hey dumfuck- I guess you conveniently forgot the feds confiscating
firearms from good upstanding American gun owners.....
xxxx
It was Mayor Nagin who ordered the confiscation by the Sheriff.
And to show how mad the citizens are, they reelected the moron.
Is that poetic justice or what!!

29
Felix D.
2007-01-13 02:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMITH29
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Hey dumfuck- I guess you conveniently forgot the feds confiscating
firearms from good upstanding American gun owners.....
xxxx
It was Mayor Nagin who ordered the confiscation by the Sheriff.
And to show how mad the citizens are, they reelected the moron.
Is that poetic justice or what!!
When Nagin said it was going to be a "chocolate" city, I'm sure he meant
something other than watching the place turn to shit.
SMITH29
2007-01-13 18:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Felix D.
Post by SMITH29
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Hey dumfuck- I guess you conveniently forgot the feds confiscating
firearms from good upstanding American gun owners.....
xxxx
It was Mayor Nagin who ordered the confiscation by the Sheriff.
And to show how mad the citizens are, they reelected the moron.
Is that poetic justice or what!!
When Nagin said it was going to be a "chocolate" city, I'm sure he meant
something other than watching the place turn to shit.
xxxx
He regrets that comment.

29
Morton Davis
2007-01-14 01:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ¿mÿ§t뮊@n?
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Hey dumfuck- I guess you conveniently forgot the feds confiscating
firearms from good upstanding American gun owners.....
Those guns were coinfiscated on orders from the Democrats in charge.
slate_leeper
2007-01-12 14:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Did you notice that almost all the violence is directed against other
criminals? Gang violence, drug violence. Not many "upstanding
citizens" needing to defend themselves here.

Logic, logic, wherefore art thou?

-dan z-


__
Banning guns because criminals use them is telling the law-abiding
that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct but on
the behavior of the lawless. It tells honest citizens that they have
only such rights and liberties as criminals will allow.
gatt
2007-01-12 15:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by slate_leeper
Did you notice that almost all the violence is directed against other
criminals? Gang violence, drug violence. Not many "upstanding
citizens" needing to defend themselves here.
Logic, logic, wherefore art thou?
Seriously. One gangbanger blasting another? That's not crime, that's
community policing.

-c
SMITH29
2007-01-12 17:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by gatt
Post by slate_leeper
Did you notice that almost all the violence is directed against other
criminals? Gang violence, drug violence. Not many "upstanding
citizens" needing to defend themselves here.
Logic, logic, wherefore art thou?
Seriously. One gangbanger blasting another? That's not crime, that's
community policing.
-c
I like the term " Urban Renewal "
David Moffitt
2007-01-13 00:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
Since you asked so nicely here are 2 dead in their tracks in New Orleans for
you.

New Orleans, Louisiana

From the New Orleans Times-Picayune of January 10, 2007
Resident shoots burglary suspect

He saw man leaving his FEMA trailer

A man, returning to his FEMA trailer in eastern New Orleans, shot a
suspected burglar as he left the temporary home.

The burglar, who was not identified, remained hospitalized in critical
condition Tuesday night.

Police said no charges would be filed against the resident.

According to police, the resident returned to his home Tuesday in the 6700
block of Deanne Street, near Babylon Street, at about 8 p.m. and found a
vehicle he did not recognize parked at his FEMA trailer. Suspicious, he
removed his gun from his truck, then saw a man leaving the trailer. The
resident told police the man made a "threatening movement" and he shot him.

Police did not find a gun on the wounded man.

Police did not know if the resident had a permit for his gun.


Tuesday, January 02, 2007


New Orleans, Louisiana

From the December 31, 2006 New Orleans Times-Picayune:

Bar owner Frank Barrera acted quickly and quietly when he spotted two
men pulling out pistols as they entered his newly opened Mid-City business
Saturday about 2 a.m.

Pulling an armed security guard behind a wall next to the bar, Barrera
waited a few moments as one of the men grabbed a patron and dragged him
behind the bar, and moved toward Barrera's wife, Maria, who had been
counting money near the cash register. As the bar customer wriggled free,
the guard fired a shot into the robber's torso, dropping him on the spot.

"That's the best thing we had to do. I had seen the guys walking in, and
that was good. So we got ready," said Barrera, who opened his La Finca Home
Plate Inn at 542 S. Jefferson Davis Parkway six weeks ago. "It's very hard
to explain because it was so fast and happened in maybe 30 or 40 seconds.
It's very scary." He said his wife of 19 years "almost got shot in the
head."

The 22-year-old wounded suspect died at the scene after taking a
pounding from debris thrown onto him by people in the bar, while his
companion disappeared on foot, according to witnesses and a bar videotape.
Police haven't yet released the dead man's name, but said he is from New
Orleans.

Police and business people in some New Orleans neighborhoods have
struggled in recent weeks to cope with armed bar robberies. It wasn't known
if suspects involved in Saturday's incident will be linked to other
incidents that have terrorized patrons and bartenders.

Barrera, 54, said he had operated a nearby restaurant for 30 years
before Katrina and worked for months to open the new business, but knew he
would need a guard and security cameras to protect his customers in a
post-Katrina climate.

According to witness and the New Orleans Police Department, the gunman
behind the bar was shot once in the left torso by a former criminal
sheriff's deputy working a security detail.

...

The Police Department classified the shooting as a justifiable homicide
and filed no charges against the guard, but Richardson said the district
attorney's office will review the incident. The department wouldn't
immediately identify the guard.
Post by Eggs Ackley
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
gatt
2007-01-13 00:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moffitt
The 22-year-old wounded suspect died at the scene after taking a
pounding from debris thrown onto him by people in the bar,
Awesome!
David Moffitt
2007-01-13 00:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by gatt
Post by David Moffitt
The 22-year-old wounded suspect died at the scene after taking a
pounding from debris thrown onto him by people in the bar,
Awesome!
I'm waiting for "Eggs Ackley" to comment but, I'm not holding my breath.
":o)



Fort Worth, Texas

From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram of January 12, 2007
Home intruder shot dead

A 22-year-old man was fatally shot early Wednesday after he forced his way
into his ex-girlfriend's house and started kicking in the door of the
bedroom where she and her boyfriend were sleeping, police said.

Police said the woman's boyfriend, 29, grabbed a handgun and started
firing, hitting Sammien Chopp once in the left chest as he pushed into the
room.

"It appears to be self-defense, but we will confer with the district
attorney's office to get a final determination," said homicide Sgt. J.D.
Thornton

After the shooting, police said, Chopp got into a 1990 white Jaguar and
tried to drive to a hospital.

Shortly before 8:30 a.m., a patrol officer saw the Jaguar driving
erratically along the northbound service road of Interstate 35W just south
of Berry Street. When it stopped in a traffic lane, Thornton said, the
officer got out of his patrol car, put the Jaguar in park and discovered
that the driver had been shot.

An ambulance took Chopp to John Peter Smith hospital, where he died at
9:14 a.m.
.

According to court records, Chopp has several convictions for drugs and
one for evading arrest. At the time of his death, he was awaiting trial on
two drug charges, one for unlawful firearm possession, one for resisting
arrest and one for assault causing bodily injury.


GUN CONTROL: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and
strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman
explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
gatt
2007-01-13 01:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moffitt
Post by gatt
Post by David Moffitt
The 22-year-old wounded suspect died at the scene after taking a
pounding from debris thrown onto him by people in the bar,
Awesome!
I'm waiting for "Eggs Ackley" to comment but, I'm not holding my breath.
That never happens. He regularly posts stuff with commentary that has
nothing to do with or contradicts the article he forwarded it, and it's
always pointed out to him by somebody of one political stripe or another.

So, folks just smack him around a little by clarifying the truth and letting
him continue to reveal himself as dishonest and foolish.

-c
R Sweeney
2007-01-15 22:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
They are at their homes, keeping them safe - responsibly.

Your failed street walking vigilantes fantasy has no basis in reality.
Gun owners don't look for trouble but they are more prepared than those who
merely hide and hope trouble passes them by.

And please note, it's the least armed segment in chocolate city that's both
killing and being killed.
zxcvbob
2007-01-16 02:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Who uses words like "awash"?

Bob
Joseph Welch
2007-01-16 03:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by zxcvbob
Post by Eggs Ackley
So...where are all those good upstanding American gun owners stopping
criminals dead in their tracks? Heh-heh...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-11-new-orleans-march_x.htm
Who uses words like "awash"?
"Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion
and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But
if we don't practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve
the truly serious problems that face us - and we risk becoming a nation of
suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along."

[Carl Sagan, "The Fine Art of Baloney Detection,"]
--
____________________


George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
Supporting Bush is treason.
_____________________


JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
The New Face of the Republican Party
http://tinyurl.com/y2j2yr
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